Gaza.. A Victory?
Clips of the angry Jew protesters in the Gaza strip was the main course of the news throughout the past week (beside the chain of plain crashes all over the globe); the images were heartbreaking, just the thought of being pushed or pulled out of houses they resided in for the past 30 some years or so is just agonizing. It is as I write those lines that protesters are still demonstrating and clashing with the Israeli forces with fierce resistant, they will eventually be literally pulled out and dragged out to other settlements scattered all over Palestine ehim.. Israel.
Hamas on the other side didn’t waste anytime to celebrate:
Sources in Gaza said the terror group already purchased 30,000 uniforms ahead of the planned victory parades. The Hamas also acquired open vehicles, to be used in the expected rallies. The movement is hoping to utilize the parades to convey the message that the Gaza Strip withdrawal is a direct result of the group’s military triumph over Israel. via Israel Insider
But seriously, is it?!
I mean, it is no secret that Mr. Sharon plan was to always render a “Palestinian Territory” unattainable, every action he took ever since he came into power had that principle backing it up; Confiscating large areas of land, the assignations of major Palestinian Jihad leaders/figures, and so on. But ever since the issue of the “Great Wall” of the West Bank came up, I became more and more convinced with the concept of the ““.
The way I think Sharon sees it is, let it be a victory for radical Hamas. We all know that no one in the international community would accept a Palestinian State lead by Hamas –which is again promising more bombings and attacks against the Israelis- and eventually, the situation will get deteriorated, I just don’t want to think of the possible consequences; but just for the record here, the very first day of the alleged victory, 25 Fatah Movement Activists were wounded in a shootout during the parade via abc. ehim.. I think Abu Mazen is ought to speak to Mr. Bush about this, he will defiantly need “peace keepers” and “democracy defenders” pretty darn soon..
Anyway, the winners?! Ariel Sharon, whose image would get eventually boosted via LA Times; AlQaeda, who will have something to brag about for the coming god knows how many tapes; and Hamas, who will lead the torn land of Gaza.
The Losers?! The Palestinians, the Israelis, and the American Tax Payers –who will have to pay for the demolition of the current settlement, AND the construction of new ones.
Very astute post. No matter how just a struggle whenever extremists touch it they turn it into a shit sandwich.
Contrast the massive coverage of the removal of the settlers with the minimal media attention when Israel sends in the bulldozers against Palestinians.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1552190,00.html
Scorpio;
The Israelis get more attention in the English speaking media because so many of them speak English, making for easier interviews. It’s fair to say that the Palestinians get more attention in the Arabic media. Also, the West Bank and Gaza are not very safe and that probably scares off a lot of Western news outlets.
Israelis have been bulldozing Palestinian property for a long time. It’s just not news anymore. The news industry works on sensationalism and the same story, no matter how tragic, loses its appeal after a while. Starvation in Africa is a perfect example.
“AND the construction of new ones.”
Yeah right.
Anon, im not really in the mood to fetch you the news articles that talked about the new settelment those evacuated from Gaza woul be moved to, But I was just reading an article that mentioned that “Uprooted settler families receive compensation of $150,000 to $400,000.” And who do you think will finance that? Isreal?!
Source:
America said that they will re-build Chechnya. Did that ever happen? No. 90% of its population are still living in complete filth.
They said that they will re-build Bosnia. Did they ever do that? No. Go there and see the ruins for yourself, I’ve met many Bosnians who will laugh in your face if you ask them whether or not the U.S did what it once promised.
Powell himself said that Bush wasn’t interested in pumping any money into the reconstruction of the Gaza strip. Who should I believe, someone who nods to everything he reads on the news or someone who actually served the current American president?
People like to talk the talk. They don’t necessarily walk the walk. There’s a difference between ATTEMPTING to help, and getting off your ass and actually helping. America isn’t doing the latter.
“im not really in the mood”
Excuses, excuses.
Allow me to add a couple of more countries to your list of Bosnia and Chechnya. Hmm.. Philippines, Sudan, Somalia and Afghanistan. But lets get real here for a second, Isreal is the biggest recipient of US aid worldwide already receiving more than $2.5 billion annually from the US, mostly as military aid. Bottom line, it is different when Afghanistan asks for aid, than it is when Israel does.
As far as the creditability of the news, that I really can’t argue with; whether or not it is propaganda, I am not to tell. And neither are you for that matter; I did spend some time in search of what you mentioned (as much as I tried to believe it) I couldn’t find anything; if you do have a source that will back up what you are saying I would deeply appreciate it if you could share it here with us.
Anyway, back to the main point; Miss Rice talked about a possible US aid for the “Reconstruction of Gaza” since early April (I) of some $1.1 billion, but again in July the Israeli government requested $2.2 billion in aid to cover the expenses of the pullout. “Israeli officials said part of the basis for the aid request was an April 2004 letter from President Bush to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, which recognized that “Israel believes it is important to bring new opportunities to the Negev and the Galilee” as part of setting conditions for the U.S.-backed solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.” (II) And just last Monday assessment teams were sent to to Israel to help decide how “how much new U.S. economic aid might be provided to help develop the Galilee and Negev regions.” (III)
Personally, I have no doubts that the US will aid in the reconstruction or the pullout. But please, do prove me wrong.
Thank you for taking the time and the effort to reply.
Sources:
I. via RedNova
II. via Washington Post
III.via Seattle Post
“Allow me to add a couple of more countries to your list of Bosnia and Chechnya. Hmm.. Philippines, Sudan, Somalia and Afghanistan.”
Don’t forget Algeria, Cambodia and Kosovo! They were some of the bloodiest.
“Bottom line, it is different when Afghanistan asks for aid, than it is when Israel does.”
Why? Because they have different intentions? The Afghan military doesn’t go hand in hand with domestic terrorism, and the same went for Iraq back in March 2003.
“Miss Rice talked about a possible US aid for the “Reconstruction of Gaza””
Miss Rice also talked about the need to install democracy in 3rd world countries through military interventions.
“But please, do prove me wrong.”
Oh, I don’t have to ‘prove’ you wrong since what you said was merely a personal opinion, so neither of us are providing actual facts. In your articles, it’s all about the ‘he said she said’ and the supposed plans, but we musn’t ignore the reality of the situation. It’s too early to assume whether the pullout is successful or not, and if it isn’t, the U.S will probably be the last one to step in and help, especially with the unsuccessful current foreign policy.
“if you do have a source that will back up what you are saying I would deeply appreciate it if you could share it here with us.”
Proof of what? The fact that America didn’t put the flame out while the countries in question were burning during endless conflicts? They SAID they’ll take action, but they DIDN’T take action, so getting our hopes up for the Gaza Strip is useless.
As for what I said about Powell, it’s in a few books that mainly revolve around the Bush administration and the reasons behind their actions, one of which is ‘The Price of Loyalty.’
May I suggest the following book as well:
After the Empire – The Breakdown of the American Order (European Perspectives: A Series in Social Thought and Cultural Criticism) by Emmanuel Todd. It will honestly enlighten you when it comes to the geo-politics of the United States. You can read its reviews online, they’re surprisingly unbiased.
First you said some people talk the talk but don’t really get off their ass, then you were waiting for america to come around and “put out the flame” and end conflicts? What is it exactly? Do you want them there? Don’t you want them there? What is it exactly? Besides, isn’t it our responsibility to develop and progress? Bosnia was a badge of shame to Europe and the Middle east…no one “got off their ass.” When america steps in they’re critisized for intervention.. when they leave they’re critisized for not doing enough.
Its about time we stopped blaming america for all our problems and started taking responsibility like adults.
Have a nice day, guys.
Joker,
I agree. It’s not the job of the US to fix all of the worlds problems. Secondly, the US is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t. It was condemned for not doing anything about the genocide in Rwanda and it was condemned for removing a genocidal tyrant like Saddam.
The US should start demanding that the world grow up and do something about its own problems.
Joker/Aliandra:
I don’t see where did anonymous or myself criticized the intervention of the US; the discussion went on talking about the aid that follows the correction. The point raised was that most of the countries that were “helped” militarily are forgotten after the war and left to suffer the after effects.
Another point that is worth mentioning here is that the US isn’t doing anything for the sake of helping; the congress and the president will defiantly have proofs beyond reasonable doubts that any intervention with foreign politics is to the benefit of the US before the other party; it is basically a win-win situation.
Joker,
“First you said some people talk the talk but don’t really get off their ass, then you were waiting for america to come around and “put out the flame” and end conflicts?”
We’re not talking about Bahrain here. We’re talking about countries like Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan – where their troops took part in some or all of their destruction. Therefore, it’s their duty to reconstruct. Common sense.
“What is it exactly? Do you want them there? Don’t you want them there? What is it exactly?”
Aid is one thing – Military intervention is another. Military intervention doesn’t solve anything, it just adds to said problems.
“Besides, isn’t it our responsibility to develop and progress?”
Are they letting us? Look at Iran. They want their nuclear facilities for agricultural and medical purposes, NOT war, but America insists it’s for military purposes, merely because they don’t want Iran to have such scientific advancements.
“Bosnia was a badge of shame to Europe and the Middle east…no one “got off their ass.” When america steps in they’re critisized for intervention.. when they leave they’re critisized for not doing enough.”
Because, again, they don’t intervene in a way that will benefit the countries. They send a bunch of fucking troops with guns, how do they expect the defenseless civilians to take it? It’s a fuckin’ slap in the face. “You want us, here we are! WITH GUNS!”
“Its about time we stopped blaming america for all our problems and started taking responsibility like adults.”
And it’s about time America stops butting in at the wrong times and causing even MORE problems than we already have. They’re OUR problems to deal with. Whether you like it or not, America is a trouble-maker, and unforunately, we don’t have ambitious leaders like the one currently in Iran, who’s willing to take a few steps in order to make it more democratic. When America leaves Iran and North Korea alone so they can advance their countries however they want, THEN you can start muttering that line, NOT when America is acting like a global administrator.
Moodz, I was replying at anon’s comment. I wasnt talking about your post.
America is not perfect, but do you know that not only does the United States as a government give out more to needy nations than europe combined because they have more money, but also, as a percentage, americans give out more of their income to the needy in other countries. So its not fair to just make claims to make ourselves feel cheated out, or captivated. We were all watching the Afghans kill themselves, their women, and their children.. we just stood there like fucking posts! When America went in, no one said anything of course at the time, but we’re judging their involvement now. Thats very thoughtful.
And when they went to bosnia with their guns, what were the europians doing before that? They were watching your “opressed muslims” get shot like rubber geese. So were your arab leaders. And bosnians will never forget that.
“Look at Iran. They want their nuclear facilities for agricultural and medical purposes”
I’m sure they are. And those swords the republican guards wave on TV are for picking their teeth after lunch.
I mean Japan and south korea are the most countries in the world with registered patents… I never heard of America pinning bogus charges on them.
Anon, just try this. Don’t put our faults on someone else. If they’re bad, thats their problem. But once you face it, you’re ready to live better.
Also:
“First you said some people talk the talk but don’t really get off their ass, then you were waiting for america to come around and “put out the flame” and end conflicts?”
If they don’t want to get off their ass and help, then don’t promise anything. It’s simple. America isn’t as self-suficient as it makes itself to be, if it was, then it wouldn’t have close ties with places like Saudi Arabia, China, Taiwan and even Japan.
If you wanna brag about America’s great accomplishments, think about things like geographical setting, population, taxation, and the ideas that they developed by using the concepts by foreign philosophers, mathematicians, physicians, authors and scientists.
Some of these things aren’t even ‘accomplished’, they’re just privileges.
As childish and irresponsible as it is to just sit down and think, “It’s America’s fault,” which is not what I’ve implied before, it’s also childish and irresponsible to think, “Hey, this is all our fault. We’re not dev
The problem lies within both, the Muslim religion itself and the lack of ambition coming from the people. We simply don’t have enough people who are willing to contribute in order to improve their own society.
Islam in its pure roots isn’t responsible, of course, but the different interpretations and how it’s applied in a political and social strategy is what misguides people.
Saudi Arabia is a great example of this, almost none of its problems are caused by America. The faults lies within the average mentality and perhaps the educational system. Every critical analysis I’ve read regarding Saudi doesn’t involve its ties with America, but rather, it talks about how things like gender inequality, domestic terrorism and poverty are overlooked.
The same goes for Iraq – Bush didn’t stop these people from getting a proper education and being able to voice their opinions, their mindless tyrant did, so when America offered to step in, who was cheering for freedom and democracy? Almost all Iraqis.
And now, what do we read in not only the Arab-based media like the Al Jazeera network, but also newspapers and magazines like Reuters, Newsweek, and Time? We read about the consequences that the Iraqi citizens weren’t aware of, and those were a LOT. They injured thousands and costed many lives. Had they known that their lives would’ve been in jeapordy, they wouldn’ve asked for help in the first place.
If America wants to help, that’s great. I’m all for it. If guns are necessary in order to get rid of destructive tyrants, that’s great. I’m all for it. If guns and airstrikes are necessary to threaten terrorists, that’s great. I’d cheer for it. But when it comes to threatning defenseless civilians for no apparent reason, that’s when things get shaky. If they want to prevent terrorism, then they need to act responsibly, and the same goes to Iraqis, but right now, allow them to feel the way they do. Instead of calling them whiny, understand that they’re reacting to the fact that their whole culture is in the process of being wiped out.
Al Zarqawi was the prime reason for bombing Faluja. Donald Rumsfeld backed the bombing of Faluja by saying something along the lines of, “We gave the people a warning. They had a chance to leave. If they didn’t, oh well. We do whatever’s necessary to reach our targets.”
So basically, if you don’t speak English and couldn’t understand the soldiers’ message, fuck you. If you’re handicapped or unable to move with ease, fuck you. If your house is full of fond memories and you don’t have the heart to leave it, fuck you. And if you didn’t have enough time to carry your children and walk a few thousand feet to where it’s safer, fuck you, too. Because you’re all going down. You’re fighters. Not civilians. Had you been civilians, you would have taken the time and energy to fuck off.
The current death toll shows that Iraq is probably more dangerous than it used to be. Fear and torture aren’t eliminated from these people just yet, and I’m afraid they won’t be for as long as the military is still there. They don’t have to back out, but they can at least send different options for aid. The Iraqis need shelter and sanitary water and food. There are people there suffering from hunger because there’s no safe way of pursuing profitable activities – These problems exist because THEY’RE there, because destroying homes were ‘necessary’ to find certain suspects, so they should be made responsible for taking care of these actions.
God, I’m going around in circles here. My point, in sum, is this:
Stop promising things that you can’t and probably won’t give. That includes financial aid, constructing services, medical care, and total changes within the government (democracy – the complete opposite of what a lot of 3rd world countries have, and therefore also difficult to adapt to.)
If the only thing you can trade with is war, then your foreign policy is fucked up in every direction and in all seasons.
Help where you can, don’t when you’re putting both, your country’s reputation worldwide and the civilians of such countries in serious danger.
“It was condemned for not doing anything about the genocide in Rwanda ”
Because it’s fucking inhumane, and Clinton admitted it. If you can sleep at night knowing that you could’ve stopped one of the most brutal genocides in history, then that’s just you, but a lot of Americans BEGGED their governemnt to step in where necessary and provide the required help. Rwanda is fairly small, compared to the rest of Africa, people made their money by selling coconuts and knitted clothing, so even a 15 fucking dollar donation would’ve helped in one way or another. This isn’t really a question of intervention anymore, it’s about morality. Comparing Iraq and Rwanda is not the same thing at all.
““Hey, this is all our fault. We’re not dev-”
I meant to say that we can’t blame ourselves when it comes to the further destruction of Afghanistan and the current situation in Iraq – because these aren’t in our hands.
I’m not blaming America for the lack of technological and social advancements in the Middle East as a whole, which is what you keep jumping at. I know we’re corrupt, and I know that the corruption has nothing to do with America and in a way, they actually helped us cope with it, but it’s OKAY to disagree with some of America’s dumb actions and it’s easy to realize that our problems, in the larger scale, is with the basic structure of our leadership and our somewhat ignorant and lazy nation. It’s sad to know that those who do achieve things, are usually willing to contribute to different countries in Europe or America where their lifestyles
There are many professors abroad in prestitious schools, teaching Islam, French and Middle Eastern studies, Just imagine what would happen if we had that level of education in Bahrain or somewhere nearby. Just imagine how great our medical support would be if we were to have these highly educated doctors work in our private hospitals, and think about the advancements we’d make if these people had the facilities required to pursue their research and apply it here. You see, America doesn’t have a choice when it comes to these things, but we do – and we don’t choose to grow as a powerful civilization.
Look at Japan after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – It didn’t quit and blame America, instead, it started reconstructing and investing in it right away.
And THAT’S what we need to do, but that doesn’t mean that America wasn’t wrong in making that poor decision, so we don’t have to ‘grow up’ when we blame them for what they’re primarily responsible for, we just need to learn how to accept it and move on.
So what does Anon want? That America intervenes more or less?
“So what does Anon want? That America intervenes more or less?”
Not militarily, no. Helping shouldn’t involve putting the lives of defenseless civilians in danger, but that’s what they’ve been doing, even long after they achieved their supposed goals.
I also want them to stop talking about spreading freedom when they simply can’t do it through guns. Like the popular slogan goes, ‘fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.’
And if they can’t handle the actions that need to go with their promises, then they shouldn’t make those promises to begin with. Instead, they should simply explain why it’s too risky to take any action. That way, they won’t have to worry about people ‘whining’ about them doing nothing.
And if they’re a true democracy, then they should consider doing what a fair amount of their population is asking for, like the protests that took place asking their government to send some aid (Notice, I said ‘aid’, instead of ‘AN EXCUSE FOR MILITARY INTERVENTION’) to places like Sudan and Rwanda who had to deal with civil wars.
The military intervention option is like someone asking you to calm a baby who’s crying uncontrollably, and after a few hours of doing nothing about it while listening to people yell ‘get off your ass and shut that baby up somehow,’ you realize that you have 2 options:
A) Feeding it and appeasing it by singing or carrying the baby around
B) Kicking the living shit out of it
You decide to pick option B, and what will that do? It will inevitably make the baby cry even louder. That’s why the “we’re damned if we do and we’re damned if we don’t” crap is stupid. If you don’t approach a situation the way you were meant to instead of taking advantage of it, this shit is bound to happen, and we have every right to blame you for it.
Emoodz;
“Another point that is worth mentioning here is that the US isn’t doing anything for the sake of helping; the congress and the president will defiantly have proofs beyond reasonable doubts that any intervention with foreign politics is to the benefit of the US before the other party;”
Every country does that. It’s so common as to be mundane. Intervening has great costs so something must be gained in return.
Anon;
You said “Are they letting us? Look at Iran. They want their nuclear facilities for agricultural and medical purposes, NOT war, but America insists it’s for military purposes, merely because they don’t want Iran to have such scientific advancements.”
Not that old fantasy that the West is keeping the middle-east from progressing …?
Why would a country with such enormous oil wealth need a nuclear facility? It’s very suspicious. Any advancements can be achieved by oil power, as were most of the advancements of the West in the last century.
“Whether you like it or not, America is a trouble-maker,”
The world doesn’t need America to make trouble. The world is perfectly capable of making its own trouble and does so with ruthless determination.
“If you wanna brag about America’s great accomplishments, think about things like geographical setting, population, taxation, and the ideas that they developed by using the concepts by foreign philosophers, mathematicians, physicians, authors and scientists.”
Ben Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Tom Paine were not foreigners. They developed the ideas of the democratic republic and the first constitution of that sort. George Washington wisely refused to be made king. I will not list all the original scientific discoveries made by Americans, because they are too numerous.
There are other countries with similar populations and large geography. China, for example, was a great civilization in its own right. It stagnated because of poor administration and the decision to isolate itself. It’s not where you are or the size of your population, but how your country is managed.
“There are people there suffering from hunger because there’s no safe way of pursuing profitable activities – These problems exist because THEY’RE there, because destroying homes were ‘necessary’ to find certain suspects, so they should be made responsible for taking care of these actions”
Anon, go visit some of the Iraqi blogs. They are mad and frustrated, not at the Americans, but at their own terrorists, their own sectarian thugs, the non-Iraqi suicide bombers, and at the violence being funded by Syria and Iran.
“If you can sleep at night knowing that you could’ve stopped one of the most brutal genocides in history, then that’s just you,”
I am sorry, Anon, but slaughters go on all the time. Darfur, Cambodia, Halabja, North Korea, Bosnia, etc … The US can’t stop all of them even if it wanted to. Americans don’t like their soldiers getting killed to solve other people’s problems. Genocide is horrible, but the US isn’t the global policeman nor does it want to be.
“Look at Japan after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – It didn’t quit and blame America, instead, it started reconstructing and investing in it right away.”
Of course they didn’t blame the US. They started the war, remember?
“And THAT’S what we need to do, but that doesn’t mean that America wasn’t wrong in making that poor decision”
The firebombing of Tokyo killed more people than the bombs, Anon. Had the US stuck to regular warfare, thousands more Americans and Japanese civilians would have perished. No one in the rest of oriental Asia condemns the bombs. The Japanese committed horrible atrocities against the Chinese and other Asians. Everyone was glad to see the end of the Japanese empire, by whatever means.
Although I enjoyed your post, anon, especially the ‘fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.’ slogan, I have to disagree with options 1 and 2. I don’t think singing “for he’s a jolly good fellow” and buying the Iraqi ambassador at the UN drinks will take us very far. War is a very very horrible idea. But the sad thing is, these kinds of people took our region so deep in shit, that we have not yet found a better way to get rid of them.
I’m happy we can see eye to eye on other issues like taking responsibility and not red herring it with america, at least not all the time.
“Not that old fantasy that the West is keeping the middle-east from progressing …?
Why would a country with such enormous oil wealth need a nuclear facility? It’s very suspicious. Any advancements can be achieved by oil power, as were most of the advancements of the West in the last century.”
Uh, and YOU having a nuclear facility
Oil isn’t here to stay, my dear friend. That’s the case with most natural resources. If OUR REGION wants to make progresses even militarily, then they should let us.
Don’t say the West as if all countries are up Iran’s ass. It’s only the U.S in particular. If America is pumping billions of dollars to its military so it can bully the world, then so should we, and just like we don’t stop you from advancing your weapons, then you shouldn’t stop us from
It’s in the fucking UN charter. Read it yourself.
“Ben Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Tom Paine were not foreigners.”
Those are the works of a very few and some of these people don’t even go as far as our philosophers and scientists went. Think math, the Greeks and the Arabs contributed a whole lot to this field. Without some of these vital formulas and tryg functions, you wouldn’ve have accomplished those things half as fast as you did.
“It’s not where you are or the size of your population, but how your country is managed.”
Uh. Where are you makes a HUGE difference. Think about aluminum, gold, oil, clean air and water – $$ plus sanitary conditions of living.
“Anon, go visit some of the Iraqi blogs. They are mad and frustrated, not at the Americans, but at their own terrorists, their own sectarian thugs, the non-Iraqi suicide bombers, and at the violence being funded by Syria and Iran.”
Of course they should be mad at their own terrorists, I am as well, but I am even more mad at you for making the issue much worse. You’re pissing in their wounds, and believe me, a lot of people can see that, internationally.
“I am sorry, Anon, but slaughters go on all the time. Darfur, Cambodia, Halabja, North Korea, Bosnia, etc … The US can’t stop all of them even if it wanted to. ”
They all don’t happen at the same fucking time, so yes they can but unforunately, no they won’t.
“Americans don’t like their soldiers getting killed to solve other people’s problems.”
No, really?!
“Of course they didn’t blame the US. They started the war, remember?”
Japan was ready to surrender before the bombs. They just refused an unconditional surrender.
Japan had no navy and no air force, they were stuck on a fucking island.
For all its posturing and terrorist fear mongering, the USA is STILL the only country in the world to have used atomic weapons upon another country and on hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.
This thing keeps cutting up my posts, goddamnit.
“Uh, and YOU having a nuclear facility …”
… Is fine? If you want to have them, that’s great. But when YOU decide what countries get to have them and what don’t, then that’s where you’re asking for trouble. Right now, if any issues arise with Iran, it’s because Rumsfeld keeps saying “THEIR LEADER IS NO FRIEND OF DEMOCRACY!” when a LOT of Iranis are happy with how the election turned out. YOU have no right to call other country’s elections a ‘mock-election’ and YOU have no right to monitor their fucking behavior, and if you feel as if you do, then WE have the right to blame YOU for shit-stirring because this is EXACTLY what you keep doing.
You clearly violated at least 5 articles in the UN charter, that has been made more than just obvious. So obvious, in fact, that Rice didn’t have anything to say when a reporter asked whether what they were doing were against the ‘agreements’ they signed with the UN.
Hi Anon,
You said, “Oil isn’t here to stay, my dear friend. That’s the case with most natural resources. If OUR REGION wants to make progresses even militarily, then they should let us.”
If religious fanatics aren’t running your country, no one cares if you want a nuclear facility. The US doesn’t care about China and Russia having bombs for that very reason.
“Don’t say the West as if all countries are up Iran’s ass. It’s only the U.S in particular”
Nope, the Europeans are also putting heavy pressure Iran.
“Those are the works of a very few and some of these people don’t even go as far as our philosophers and scientists went”
The European philosophical and scientific tradition lasted centuries longer than that of the mid-east. It started with the ancient Greeks and continues today. No middle-eastern philosopher contributed anything to western democratic thought.
“Think math, the Greeks and the Arabs contributed a whole lot to this field. Without some of these vital formulas and tryg functions, you wouldn’ve have accomplished those things half as fast as you did.”
That’s nice, Anon. But what have the Greeks and Arabs done lately to advance knowledge? Like over the past five or six centuries?
“Uh. Where are you makes a HUGE difference. Think about aluminum, gold, oil, clean air and water – $$ plus sanitary conditions of living”
Many countries have these things, Anon. Africa is rich in resources but poorly managed. So everyone lives in crappy conditions. Mexico also has abundant resources but rampant corruption makes it a poor country. Clean air and sanitary living conditions are all brought about by good management. $$ is created by sound economies – it does not fall out of our assholes. All of these require hard work to maintain.
Hong Kong has no natural resources, and it is an extremely wealthy city.
Europe was once dirt poor when compared to other civilizations of the same era. It became wealthy through political and cultural changes.
Rich countries are rich because they have good administration. Want an example of a first world nation driven almost to poverty by incompetence? Argentina.
“They all don’t happen at the same fucking time, so yes they can but unforunately, no they won’t”
It doesn’t matter when slaughters happen. The US is not the global policeman, and will only get involved when it affects their own security. Intervention costs lives and money. If you feel so bad about slaughters, rally up your own armies and do something about them. Darfur is right in your neighborhood.
“Japan had no navy and no air force, they were stuck on a fucking island”.
Huh? How did they attack Pearl Harbor? How did they invade all those island nations in the Pacific? With harsh language?
“For all its posturing and terrorist fear mongering, the USA is STILL the only country in the world to have used atomic weapons upon another country and on hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.”
The US was the first to use atomic bombs because it was the first to develop them. The number of people who died was not “hundreds of thousands” but about 100K. The vast majority died from the blast, not from radiation. Would you prefer that they had died through conventional firebombing, which would have killed a lot more? The US hit those two cities because that’s where the Japanese military machine was being manufactured. Knock out all the factories and you destroy the beast.
Do you know how many civilians died in European world wars? About 20 million and that was through conventional warfare. It is unfortunate, but civilians do die in war.
Cheers,
Aliandra
“If religious fanatics aren’t running your country, no one cares if you want a nuclear facility. The US doesn’t care about China and Russia having bombs for that very reason.”
I wouldn’t go as far as to call the new elected president a religious fanatic. Up to now, I find him to be pretty reasonable, especially after he suggested that schools should be coeducational. That’s a great step forward for Iran, and I love how he realizes the fact that they need to be self-suficient. He talks a LOT about scientific achievenemts, and that’s damned impressive. It’s better than yapping on and on about about pointless shit like supposed “freedom” and “democracy” [needed, but far from being achieved], which is what Mahmood Abbas keeps doing while not taking any steps in improving the Palestinian situation.
“The US doesn’t care about China and Russia having bombs for that very reason.”
That’s because China and Russia are part of the P5, genius.
“Huh? How did they attack Pearl Harbor? How did they invade all those island nations in the Pacific? With harsh language?”
Oh my fucking God, SOMEONE was asleep during History class.
The current US administration is completely systematically insane. They go on and on about how evil terrorism is, yet they’ve created a scenario that perpetuates and encourages further acts of terror on a global scale. Just today, broadcasted on Yahoo and picked up by local news agencies was the story about (evangelical, past candidate for US president) Pat Robertson calling for the assasination of the democratically elected president of Venezuela, a very public act which is both blatant terrorism and illegal.
Go America!
Freedom! Patriot Act? What???
Freedom! Stem cell research? Evil. Repo technology? Good!
Love the way it’s come out that Anon’s an Iranian Ahmadinejad supporter who thinks that freedom and democracy is ‘pointless shit’. Why is it these Islamists have got to engage in double talk the entire time (or at least while they’re writing in English)? It comes out soon or later.
How much more money does Iran’s leadership need? Here’s an idea – how about instead of trying to acquire nuclear weapons or finance its death squads in Iraq, Ahmadinejan uses Iran’s recently acquired cash mountain from oil to help the starving of Darfur or destitute of Chechnya? Then I might not think that you or your leader are complete bullshitters.
Hi Anon;
You said, “That’s because China and Russia are part of the P5, genius”
No, it’s because both countries understand the implications of nuclear war. There’s a lot be said for mutually assured destruction. Religious nuts don’t care. They’re all going to heaven.
“It’s better than yapping on and on about about pointless shit like supposed “freedom” and “democracy”
Were freedom and democracy so pointless, there would not be such mass immigration from countries that don’t have them to those that do. You sure don’t see Westerners lining up in front of African and Middle-Eastern embassies to get entry visas.
“He talks a LOT about scientific achievenemts, and that’s damned impressive”
Yes, talk is damned impressive, isn’t it? It doesn’t cost a thing.
“Oh my fucking God, SOMEONE was asleep during History class.”
I am afraid that was you, sir, if you believe Imperial Japan didn’t have an airforce and a navy.
“They go on and on about how evil terrorism is, yet they’ve created a scenario that perpetuates and encourages further acts of terror on a global scale”
The only thing that is perpetuating terrorism is radical Islam. Muslim fanatics are killing Buddhists in Thailand, Christians in Pakistan and in the Phillippines, and Hindus in India. None of this has anything to do with the US or the Iraq war.
“ Pat Robertson calling for the assasination of the democratically elected president of Venezuela, a very public act which is both blatant terrorism and illegal”
Goofy Pat has also claimed power over hurricanes. Anyone who takes him seriously is as silly as he is.
Cheers,
Aliandra
“Love the way it’s come out that Anon’s an Iranian Ahmadinejad supporter who thinks that freedom and democracy is ‘pointless shit’.”
I said TALKING about freedom and democracy is pointless shit. What is it with you and jumping to conclusions before allowing the actual information to sink in?
“Ahmadinejan uses Iran’s recently acquired cash mountain from oil to help the starving of Darfur or destitute of Chechnya?”
Because there’s just as many problems in Iran that need to be taken care of. Everyone knows that you need to get your shit together before helping others.
“Then I might not think that you or your leader are complete bullshitters.”
I don’t really care much for your opinion, you seem to be painfully, or rather, laughably misguided anyways. “Just LOOK at these Islamists!”
“No, it’s because both countries understand the implications of nuclear war. There’s a lot be said for mutually assured destruction. Religious nuts don’t care. They’re all going to heaven.”
Common sense for 600, Alex.
“Yes, talk is damned impressive, isn’t it? It doesn’t cost a thing.”
Oh sorry, are you talking about America here? Because I hear that they haven’t achieved most things that they usually “talk” about. However, the Irani leader has already appointed people and scientists to the necessary tasks. They’re already in the process of changing their educational system.
Keep bashing him, though. I mean, SOMEONE needs to come up for excuses to bomb his nation to oblivion, right?
“Goofy Pat has also claimed power over hurricanes. Anyone who takes him seriously is as silly as he is.”
So is anyone taking your current administration seriously, but you wouldn’t know that, you’re too busy clawing your way up their ass.
It’s widely known that the US financially supported the opposition in the 2002 coup against Chavez to try to topple him. It’s no state secret. The current US admin is fucking scary, blatantly rascist and deeply hypocritical.
Gaza is far from a victory. It just means the Israelis are going to hold onto the West Bank that much harder. It is a strategic retreat, dont expect anymore. The “security fence” that is almost complete is what Israel plans on later unilaterally declaring as its new border. Palestinians are going to be hemd into a bantustand state and the Israel PR machine will have the world thinking that they did the Palestinians a favour.
The withdrawl from Gaza is a few moves from checkmate for the Israelis.
Anonymous;
“It’s widely known that the US financially supported the opposition in the 2002 coup against Chavez to try to topple him”
The US gave verbal support only. Would you care to post some evidence to the contrary?
“The current US admin is fucking scary, blatantly rascist and deeply hypocritical.”
With two African-American Secretaries of State and an Asian Secretary of Labor, the current US administration can hardly be called racist. As for hypocrisy, that is so common in politics it’s considered normal.
I agree with you, Abu Sinan.
“Would you care to post some evidence to the contrary?”
Probably, just give me some time.
“With two African-American Secretaries of State and an Asian Secretary of Labor, the current US administration can hardly be called racist. As for hypocrisy, that is so common in politics it’s considered normal.”
America is supposed to be “by the people for the people,” and over the past 5 years, I’ve seen those same American ideals whittled away, month by month. It all started with the Y2K election coup and the travesty of partisanship evident on the Supreme Court, and now you have advisers getting away with arguably WORSE crimes than Watergate, crimes that would be called TREASON in any other arena, with barely a slap on the hand. In the meantime, the “liberal” press is rotting in jail to “protect” their sources. It’s like a fucking comedy.
Not to mention the craziness of the current subject of how the Iraqi withdrawl would weaken the U.S.
What STILL never ceases to baffle me is the unwavering support of Bush despite the HUGE evidence of his administration’s war crimes, public bamboozling, TREASON, and selling of American rights to private oil interests.
It’s like, what the fuck else do people need to know that this administration is the OPPOSITE of American ideals?
Anon;
“It all started with the Y2K election coup ”
Gore had one statewide re-count, as was his right, and Bush came out ahead. A year or so later, other agencies went down, re-counted, and verified that Bush had more votes. Even the New York Times (not exactly a paper friendly to the political right) admitted that Bush really did have more votes.
If you’re a democrat, get over the fact that your guy lost in a fair election.
“crimes that would be called TREASON in any other arena, with barely a slap on the hand.”
Clinton had several chances to catch bin ladin and did nothing. He also approved the transfer of nuclear technology to China. Now THAT’s treasonous behavior. He dragged the US into Bosnia and Kosovo when nothing that was going on there endangered national security.
“What STILL never ceases to baffle me is the unwavering support of Bush”
Because most Americans disagree with your premise.
“It’s like, what the fuck else do people need to know that this administration is the OPPOSITE of American ideals?”
That’s been said about every administration since the country got going. No administration can please all the people all the time.
“admitted that Bush really did have more votes.”
Holy shit, that’s even more depressing.
“Clinton had several chances to catch bin ladin and did nothing.”
How can you be so sure of that? “THAT guy? Oh yeah, I could’ve done it if I wanted to.” Maybe the guy just had self-esteem issues. “THAT sumo wrestler? Fuck yeah, I could’ve kicked his teeth in if I wanted to.”
Bush has stated, in the debate about stem cell research on fetuses, that even if the research saves lives, the end does not justify the means. Essentially, one life should not be given to justify saving more lives.
Which is the exact opposite stance he took on Iraq, justifying the lives lost by speaking of the lives he saved from the hands of Saddam.
Another inherent contradiction in a similar vein; lives vs liberties.
In Iraq, Bush justified the death of US forces and Iraqi people by saying that their new democratic liberties were more important than the lives lost.
Yet in Guantanemo bay, the rights of those imprisoned are taken away forn ‘national security’.
Their way of dealing with the threat of terrorism is basically fueling more terrorist activites. The US has a long history of funding despotic regimes, Saddam Hussain included, then turning on them and painting them as enemies and ‘terrorists’. They have to change their absurd foreign policy or suffer the consequences.
“He also approved the transfer of nuclear technology to China. Now THAT’s treasonous behavior.”
Oh yeah, because, again, no fucking country in the world has the brain required to handle nuclear technology. Especially those fucking Muslims, ew. I mean, it says so in their Koran, which is written for terrorists by terrorists: “Kill everybody seeking technological advacenments. When you fuck up somehow, blame it on America. It’s what they’re there for. Don’t read The Economist either, it’s about as factual as Cinderella.” (3:51)
And once we do have nuclear technology, we’ll conquer every country in the world in the name of Allah, and we’ll convert your infidel grandchildren. Since we can’t think for ourselves, we’ll adopt Rousseau’s philosophy of the general will. Critical thinking is a fucking no-no in our books.
But America? They’re not power-hungry at all, no, and the current war? It’s not even a war! It’s peace-keeping! Hip hip, hooray! Now go fetch my freedom badge.
“In Iraq, Bush justified the death of US forces and Iraqi people by saying that their new democratic liberties were more important than the lives lost.”
He never said that, unless you care to post a link??
“The US has a long history of funding despotic regimes, Saddam Hussain included,”
The US never funded Saddam. Saddam had plenty of his own money from oil. The US gave him and the Iranians intelligence during the Iran-Iraq war. The Russians supplied Saddam with tanks and the French supplied him with planes.
“,then turning on them and painting them as enemies and ‘terrorists’”
Saddam was “turned on upon” when he invaded Kuwait. He was also planning to assassinate George Bush 1, a casus belli in itself. He kept shooting at planes which were maintaining the internationally agreed-upon no fly zones. Saddam was basically a pain in the ass. Had he behaved himself, he could have avoided his current situation.
“Their way of dealing with the threat of terrorism is basically fueling more terrorist activites.”
The US isn’t to blame for the screwed up condition of contemporary Islam. The US didn’t teach all those young men to go out and kill infidels and Muslims who aren’t Muslim enough. The effects of that murderous ideology are being felt from the Phillippines to Thailand to Nigeria, countries that aren’t remotely connected to the US war on terrorism. Muslims MUST reform Islam, else the rest of the world will be forced to keep them at arms length.
Anon;
“no fucking country in the world has the brain required to handle nuclear technology.”
Ayatollahcracies have no brains. They have passions.
“When you fuck up somehow, blame it on America.”
That’s certainly a common sentiment in the middle-east.
“Critical thinking is a fucking no-no in our books.”
When middle-easterners believe that 3000 Jews didn’t show up at the WTC on Sept 11, critical thinking is definitely lacking somewhere. That also goes for the Egyptian journalist who said the US caused last year’s tsunami. I don’t know how many people believed him, but given the WTC fantasies, I’m not very optimistic.
“He never said that, unless you care to post a link??”
Oh yes he did, and on National TV. I’d look through the ABC website.
“The US never funded Saddam. Saddam had plenty of his own money from oil. The US gave him and the Iranians intelligence during the Iran-Iraq war.”
They gave them both weapons so they can sit back and enjoy the show while they both kill each other. It knew that this 8-year war was going to destory both countries’ economies. That didn’t stop them for ‘supporting’ both countries with more weapons, though.
“The US isn’t to blame for the screwed up condition of contemporary Islam. The US didn’t teach all those young men to go out and kill infidels and Muslims who aren’t Muslim enough yaydayaydaydayda….”
Well thank you so much for stating the obvious. If you think most of us already don’t know that, then you’re terribly wrong.
And if you think that the Islam you’re being exposed to is the mentality in most Muslim cultures including those in Africa or Indonesia, and the actions of those terrorists represent the actual politics of Islam, then I must say that I feel terribly sorry for you.
Just like anti-war movements are taking place in the UK and the US, anti-terrorism movements are scattered all over Muslim nations. Haven’t you even noticed the new wave of young Muslim authors? American-Muslim authors as well? Most of them don’t agree that it’s completely necessary for the US to feel the need to moderate the rest of the world. If it really is concerned about human rights and freedom, then it would’ve taken action against a country where many human rights are violated: Saudi Arabia.
“The rest of the world”? Please. America is the only one that’s either forcing or encouraging others to butt in when we don’t need or want them to. You can’t help us when you don’t even understand a) our religion, b) our culture and c) what’s wrong with either of those.
“Saddam was “turned on upon” when he invaded Kuwait. He was also planning to assassinate George Bush 1, a casus belli in itself. He kept shooting at planes which were maintaining the internationally agreed-upon no fly zones. Saddam was basically a pain in the ass. Had he behaved himself, he could have avoided his current situation.”
Uh, nobody said Saddam was the greatest man alive. The guy was a fucked up orphan who barely graduated from high school. He only got his status by kicking out the previous Iraqi leader. He was sentenced to death in absentia in the 60′s. He studied law in prison while the Ba’th party was struggling. More than one Arab leader was after him at some point, but everyone backed out when he received and kept maintaining his power. It doesn’t take a fucking genius to realize that he’s as much of a leader as Paris Hilton is.
“Ayatollahcracies have no brains. They have passions.”
Oh okay, in that case, let’s just kill them. I’ll lock them within the Irani borders, you turn on the gas.
We are aware that such a supreme leader is not needed in the country. Just because no one is willing to rebel, doesn’t mean that Persians don’t realize how it’s corrupting the country, because they certainly do. Religious clerics can never handle such political control – they want the impossible.
“That’s certainly a common sentiment in the middle-east.”
Then you obviously haven’t been to the Middle East. I guess sweeping generalizations and typical stereotypes are a common sentiment in America, though. Let’s hope that most of them don’t think like you.
“When middle-easterners believe that 3000 Jews didn’t show up at the WTC on Sept 11, critical thinking is definitely lacking somewhere.”
You’re saying that as if ALL or even MOST Middle Easterners believe that, when you don’t fucking know it. Most of the Middle Easterners I’ve talked to about the situation never suggested that, and the ones who do usually grew out of it.
We don’t wait for Michael Moore to form our opinions, you know (you probably don’t). In case you haven’t noticed, our brains are actually attached to our spinal cords. We can connect the dots ourselves, but thanks for offering your enlightening services.
At least make a fucking effort to distinguish between useless information and assuming how an entire fucking nation thinks when all of them have completely different mentalities. We’re not sheep, we’re just as mentally diverse as any other country is. If you don’t understand that, and you obviously don’t, then I call THAT lacking in critical thinking.
If you want to attack us, don’t attack our religion or those who misrepresent it, attack our governments directly, because they’re the ones who actually deserve to be put in their places. They fuck up, and we have to suffer the harsh consequences. America isn’t looking out for OUR interests.
If anything is causing our downfall, it’s the LEADERS and how their policy-making has affected how a population thinks as a whole (Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Sudan.) Who do you think fucked up heaps of countries in Africa, particularly Congo? Bad leadership, not America. The genocide that happened in Rwanda? Bad leadership, not America. And don’t forget Uganda, which has been engaged in war for the past 20 years. Who knows about this? Not America.
Like I said and keep saying, we don’t blame you for fucking us up. That would mean that we know nothing about our history and how our governments arose in the first place. We only blame you for worsening already fucked up situations.
Mornin’ Anon;
You said “If it really is concerned about human rights and freedom, then it would’ve taken action against a country where many human rights are violated: Saudi Arabia”
Are you serious? Bin Ladin attacked the US precisely because he didn’t want American troops in the land of Mohammad. US troops in SA were a big issue with many Arabs. If Muslims went rioting because the Americans toileted a Koran, can you imagine what would happen if the US attacked SA?
“Please. America is the only one that’s either forcing or encouraging others to butt in when we don’t need or want them to. “
Nonsense. The US is more often encouraged to butt in than the reverse.
“than one Arab leader was after Saddam at some point,”
It was the job of the Arab League to do something about him, not the UN or the US. Prior to Gulf War 2, it was appalling to see all those street demonstrations with his picture held high. How can so many middle-easterners support a genocidal maniac?
“Then you obviously haven’t been to the Middle East.”
For the record, I have.
“I guess sweeping generalizations and typical stereotypes are a common sentiment in America”
Please. Here’s some common middle-eastern sentiments. The US is to blame for their condition. The West is keeping them down. The Zionists or the CIA are out to get them. The US caused the tsunami. The Mossad bombed Sharm el Sheik to make Muslims look bad. In some Pakistani madrassas, they were telling kids that the US was making Muslim-eating dinosaurs. Can it get any sillier?
Stereotypes exist everywhere, that’s true, and I won’t deny US is immune, but the most absurd seem to get generated in your part of the world.
“Most of them don’t agree that it’s completely necessary for the US to feel the need to moderate the rest of the world”
They’re right. Now please convince the rest of the world. Why can’t the Israelis, the Palestinians, and the Arabs solve their differences by themselves? Why did Spain have to call the US to kick Morrocco off that little island? Why did the Europeans ask the Americans to do something about Bosnia? Why did Liberia and Haiti have to ask the US to solve their political problems?
And when the US chooses not to moderate, it gets damned for that too. The world cannot have it both ways.
“If you want to attack us, don’t attack our religion or those who misrepresent it, attack our governments directly”
Your religious leaders deserve A LOT of blame for radicalizing your young men. And a good many of you act surprised when some of those young men actually took seriously what they’ve heard all their lives and choose careers as terrorists. The rest of you deserve collective blame for not doing anything. For years, the Grand Mosque in Mecca (your holiest place) was preaching invective against non-Muslims. Two million Muslims go there every year and no one complained? And assuming that the two million who went one year was a different set of Muslims that went the next, the new set still refused to do anything? What do you think would happen if the Vatican started preaching invective against non-Catholics? Or if they wrote “Death to Saudi Arabia” on the basilica colonnades, just like ‘Death to America” on the Three Pillars? Sure as shit, the Catholics would put a stop to it right away.
You won’t convince people that your religion is one of peace when Mecca, Al-Azhar and your other sites are howling out the opposite.
“America isn’t looking out for OUR interests.”
America, like every other country, looks out for its own interests. It isn’t obligated to look out for yours.
“Like I said and keep saying, we don’t blame you for fucking us up”
Anon, I’m glad to hear that you don’t buy into the Blame-America-for-Every-Flea-that-Infests-My-Armpit mentality. I do read a lot of these middle-eastern chatboards, and too many of the commentors insist that America or the West is at the heart of the region’s aches and pains. It’s sad, and it’s false, and the longer they continue to do that, the further and further behind they’re countries going to fall.
Cheers,
“Are you serious? Bin Ladin attacked the US precisely because he didn’t want American troops in the land of Mohammad.”
I think Bin Ladin just wants any reason to attack. If this wasn’t the land of Moahmmed, he’d be all, “Pure sand! Don’t touch our pure sand! We need it for… sand castles! I kill ya!”
“US troops in SA were a big issue with many Arabs.”
Yeah, if they do attack they should probably burn the King Fahad causeway. I’ve had enough of Saudis stealing thousands of our precious parking lots.
“It was the job of the Arab League to do something about him, not the UN or the US. Prior to Gulf War 2, it was appalling to see all those street demonstrations with his picture held high. How can so many middle-easterners support a genocidal maniac?”
I guess the media had us deceived. I’ve always hated Saddam, though, if it wasn’t for the fact that he was such a fucked up loon, it was for his arrogance and racism against the Kurds. Kurds are spiffy as hell.
I personally wish we had the courage to beat his ass. I would probably crouch under some rusty kitchen table and pray for an angel, if we ever declared a war on him, though. I don’t want to have my face all deformed with his biological weapons.
“Nonsense. The US is more often encouraged to butt in than the reverse.”
That’s because not a lot of people are as politically educated as they should be. They think America is their personal Ghandi, running around in their flip-flops saving everyone by installing peace and security. However, that is clearly not the case. Hence the fact that many people in Iraq regret ever cheerfully welcoming America. Boy were they surprised, eh?
“Can it get any sillier?”
I think the fact that many Americans (see what I did there? I said ‘many’, but hey, if you’ll slap ‘stupid’ on our foreheads before even talking to ‘most’ of us then I get to do the same thing) think that the middle easterners are barbaric worm-eating fundamentalists is even sillier. You see, this is a common sentiment in America, and you can’t deny that. Both of these ideas are just as stupid as you say so. Ours is better though, because we’re more creative. The CIA involved in 9/11? Come on, that’s just genius. It’s better than the usual: “All Arabs are trying to kill us, they want to CONQUER the world with their stupid religion! Oh my God, everyone lock yourself in Starbucks so that we can have enough coffee and never sleep in case they barge in unexpectedly wearing hoodies and fat backpacks.”
“For years, the Grand Mosque in Mecca (your holiest place) was preaching invective against non-Muslims. Two million Muslims go there every year and no one complained?”
Uh, do you speak Arabic? I don’t think so. Who keeps translating the words for you, Pat Buchanen, Ann Coulter, or both? I regularly visit the Grand Mosque and guess what? During the morning prayers, all they talked about was peace and on my last visit, they had a Hadith-gathering outside where there was a dicsussion about why ‘forcing’ people to convert gives you bad credit and how you won’t get rewarded for such bullshit, etc.
I don’t want to convince you of anything. If you think Islam is mean and nasty, that’s fine. It’s not like after reading my post you’ll buy a rug and cluelessly start slamming your forehead on it.
“And assuming that the two million who went one year was a different set of Muslims that went the next, the new set still refused to do anything?”
Shit, you better start running! WE’RE AFTER YOU. ALLAH IS AFTER YOU. AHHHH! 2 MILLION A YEAR! BRAINWASHED! HATEFUL! IGNORANT!
“America, like every other country, looks out for its own interests. It isn’t obligated to look out for yours.”
You FINALLY said it! America cares about itself, and only itself, and I don’t blame it for doing that, but when it depends on a bajillion countries for sexy natural resources, that’s when it gets into the shady business, “We’ll give you an army base if you give us like .. what do you have? Aluminum? Gold? I think we’ll settle with oil for now, but if we want anything else, we’ll ask for it. WITH MISSILES! Joking, we’ll do it with cheques because we’re civilized. But if you fuck up or get any weapons, we’ll tear your ass up with empty coke bottles.”
“Anon, I’m glad to hear that you don’t buy into the Blame-America-for-Every-Flea-that-Infests-My-Armpit mentality.”
I guess we can be like best friends forever now?
Oh. I forgot to read the rest of your post.
“I do read a lot of these middle-eastern chatboards, and too many of the commentors insist that America or the West is at the heart of the region’s aches and pains.”
They’re probably just a bunch of 13 year olds on their parents’ computers. I was like that when I was 13 too. The ‘US. vs. THEM’ theory exists in both places, though. I’ve met more Americans with this mentality than any of the international students I study with. And as sick as you are of us supposedly ‘blaming’ you for everything, we’re just as fucking sick of you constantly referring to us as potential terrorists whose sole goal in life is to kill you all.
If I wanted a reason to hate America, then I would go on a painfully biased, witless message board as well and argue for hours about how everyone is ignorant and how I’m smart because I studied with genius mullahs with hairy pot bellies in school.
Even though I’m a Muslim, I’m so disgusted with most message boards dedicated to Islam. They’re just a bunch of geeks with really low self-esteem trying to come up with a reason for their existence by assuming that they are bright and educated enough to tell others how to follow a simple religion. You’d be a fool to take either them or the people at the board you spoke of seriously. But not only did you take them seriously, you assumed that most people in this region think like that. Labeling people too soon is why blatant racism still exists in today’s world. You need to teach yourself how to make a difference between the word “most”, “a few,” and “the ones I spoke to on the internet.” It’s really easy.
“It’s sad, and it’s false, and the longer they continue to do that, the further and further behind they’re countries going to fall.”
And the longer you keep portraying Islam and the cultures that revolve around it in the worst light possible while accusing us of being so pathetically irresponsible and dumb that we probably can’t even figure out how to clean our own dishes and tie our shoes, the longer you’ll keep annoying us with this incessant and childish whining. I’m going to act like the typical naive college student now and say that I wish, for just a fucking minute, we can all just shut the hell up and start shaking the others’ hands. Except I imagine you guys to have greasy hands, you eat a lot of fried chicken.
ANON, you said “Hence the fact that many people in Iraq regret ever cheerfully welcoming America. Boy were they surprised, eh?”
They were surprised that their own people could be so uncivilized.
“I personally wish we had the courage to beat his ass.”
Then why diss the Americans for having it? The US wanted to remove Saddam during Gulf War 1. The UN, in their infinite wisdom, said no. Had the US gotten rid of the bastard back then, we wouldn’t have the situation we have now
“Ours is better though, because we’re more creative. The CIA involved in 9/11? Come on, that’s just genius”
Yeah, just like your statement about imperial Japan not having a navy or airforce. You should go back to your old high school and sue for gross incompetence in history education.
Middle-eastern conspiracy fantasies are nothing to joke about. It shows rampant ignorance and illiteracy. A country can’t progress when so many of their citizens believe in junk fiction.
“I regularly visit the Grand Mosque and guess what? During the morning prayers, all they talked about was peace and on my last visit, they had a Hadith-gathering outside where there was a dicsussion about why ‘forcing’ people to convert gives you bad credit and how you won’t get rewarded for such bullshit, etc.”
SA put the lid on the nasty stuff after 9-11. Apparently, they realized there was a connection. Before 9-11, the imams weren’t very interested in peace, love, and fluffy kittens. And since you visited Mecca recently, have they removed that lovely “Death to America” sentiment from the Mina pillars?
““but when it depends on a bajillion countries for sexy natural resources, that’s when it gets into the shady business. We’ll give you an army base if you give us like .. what do you have? Aluminum? Gold? I think we’ll settle with oil for now, but if we want anything else, we’ll ask for it.”
How about this? We’ll give you oil if you give us dollars? Sound familiar? When you get right down to it, all commerce is barter. The US needs the oil and the middle-east needs the dollars. The US pays for the resources it buys, no shady business in that.
“They were surprised that their own people could be so uncivilized.”
Cut me some fucking slack here.
“Then why diss the Americans for having it? The US wanted to remove Saddam during Gulf War 1. The UN, in their infinite wisdom, said no. Had the US gotten rid of the bastard back then, we wouldn’t have the situation we have now.”
We would’ve had a worse situation, and besides, Iraq needed the time to recover from its war with Iran and Kuwait.
Also, here’s something from Ted Rall:
‘There’s no need to exagerrate Saddam’s crimes. He was a barbarous dictator. But nothing close to 400,000 graves have ever been unearthed, and the gassing of the Kurds is a far more complicated affair than Bush would have us believe. Let’s just say that no one misses Saddam, except perhaps Iraqis who long for regular electricity.
Suffice it to say, I’ve spent enough time in the Middle East to have my own perspective about US relations with same. And I’ve also read enough propaganda books by wide-eyed neo-conservatives who think we should rebuild the British Empire.
I can’t help noticing the way that you gloss over the proven, photographed, widely documented acts of systematic torture committed by many US troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba and elsewhere. The fact is, many soldiers who may not condone such behavior become tarnished by it because their sense of loyalty and embarrassment prevents them from speaking out against it. The truth is, it’s more the duty of honorable US soldiers to condemn torture by Americans than it is mine or anyone else’s–but they’re not doing it.’
“Yeah, just like your statement about imperial Japan not having a navy or airforce. You should go back to your old high school and sue for gross incompetence in history education.”
Ah, Misses Know-it-all speaks again and hits the SPOT RIGHT ON! Bravo!
“Middle-eastern conspiracy fantasies are nothing to joke about. It shows rampant ignorance and illiteracy. A country can’t progress when so many of their citizens believe in junk fiction.”
I think the only joke here is the fact that you actually believe your skewed and biased opinions. Wanna know what’s funnier? The fact that you’re a racist. THAT is hysterical comedy gold!
Also – what’s the deal with you dismissing an entire nation as uneducated and illiterate? The world’s most famous historians, financial and political analysists are Arabs. There are Arab-Muslim professors in America’s most prestigious schools, including Yale and Dartmouth.
Grow out of your disgusting mentality already and perhaps get a sense of a fucking humor, because that’s the only thing that can back up your
“The US pays for the resources it buys, no shady business in that.”
IF ALIANDRA SAYS SO, THEN SO IT IS!
Check this out:
“a proposal from a consortium led by Unocal, a US oil company, to build a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, and possibly an oil pipeline as well. These routes would pass through southern Afghanistan, which has been controlled by the Taliban since the proposal was first made. As a result, Unocal courted the Taliban for several years. The company gave the regime some NON-financial aid as part of that process before eventually abandoning the project in the wake of the US attacks on Osama bin Laden’s camps in 1998.” – Brendan Nyhan
Anon;
“nothing close to 400,000 graves have ever been unearthed”
Of course not. You don’t need 400,000 graves if you’re shoving people into mass pits.
“The truth is, it’s more the duty of honorable US soldiers to condemn torture by Americans than it is mine or anyone else’s–but they’re not doing it.’”
It was other soldiers who brought the Abu Graib business to the attention of their superiors, my dear uninformed friend. The military was investigating back in December, way before the scandal hit the airwaves.
Regarding those acts of “torture” in Cuba, you mean playing loud Cristina Aquilera music, insulting them, and throwing mass market copies of the Koran in the toilet?
“Grow out of your disgusting mentality already and perhaps get a sense of a fucking humor because that’s the only thing that can back up your”
Back up my what? You lost the thought halfway through.
“The fact that you’re a racist”
Um … Arabs and Iranians are Caucasians too. Like I said, go sue your old school for mis-educating you. You’re just adding fuel to the fire of those who DO dismiss y’all as ignorant hicks.
Have a nice weekend, Anon.
“You don’t need 400,000 graves if you’re shoving people into mass pits.”
Why, only an American could ever joke about that.
“It was other soldiers who brought the Abu Graib business to the attention of their superiors, my dear uninformed friend.”
What are you, cross-eyed? I was quoting Ted Rall. And that’s coming from a guy who spent years reporting from Uzbekisan, Afghanistan, and if I recall correctly, Iraq.
I’d rather listen to someone who’s actually been there, than someone who depends on Fox News and CNN for their daily exciting propoganda.
“uninformed”
Here’s another quote for you trailer fucks to thrive on:
When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. -Anais Nin
“Back up my what? You lost the thought halfway through.”
I did, I was distracted by the next phrase of yours which reveals more of your tiring stupidity.
Let’s see…
Back up your … ill-informed, simplistic, and badly argued opinions.
“Um … Arabs and Iranians are Caucasians too. Like I said, go sue your old school for mis-educating you.”
Aww. Look who’s talking. Don’t pretend to care about education, you. Without grammar, how can your youth ever stand a chance?
“Have a nice weekend, Anon.”
How can I, when I know that the likes of you exist?