The Pope has Spoken
Pope Benedict XVI urged Islamic countries to ensure religious rights for Christian migrants Monday while also saying Christians should continue welcoming Muslim immigrants with open arms.
Benedict stressed the need for “reciprocity” in Christian-Muslim relations during a speech to members of the pontifical council for migrants. The Vatican office is studying the issue of migration to and from Muslim countries during its annual meeting this week.
Cardinal Renato Martino, who heads the migrant office, has complained recently that while Muslim immigrants are often welcomed into largely Christian countries in Europe and allowed to practice their faith freely, Christian immigrants in the Islamic world are denied those same rights.
“Obviously, it is also to be hoped that Christians who emigrate to countries with an Islamic majority find welcome and respect of their religious identities there,” he said. Via AP
Alright now, this does it.. He and any other “Christians” have a lot of nerve calling out the Muslim world, while not saying a word about the illegal, immoral unjustifiable war in Iraq which has killed over 100,000 INNOCENT Muslims. When the pope starts speaking out vociferously about American Imperialism, the Chinese government squashing its citizens basic human rights, and people being in jail for “denying the holocaust”, maybe then I will be able to take him seriously as a “Christian”.
The pope is not a politician. When the Vatican comes out with political, half baked statements about peace and love, without DENOUNCING STRONGLY AND IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, the evil that exists today, I will respect them for it.
Um, Moodz, The Holy See and specifically the last Pope were against the War in Iraq and repeatedly condemned the Coalition for going to war and urged for a peaceful solution.
Second, the man is asking Muslims to allow Christians to openly worship. I don’t think that’s a tall order.
I can’t go around again on the 100,000 civilan dead Lancet absurdity.
The Vatican is also clashing with China on the state approved list of Bishops. They were excommunicated b/c they’re tools of the state.
Why do you put “denying the holocost” in quotes?
So that does it, does it? So one cannot criticize the intolerance and bigotry of Islamic practices because there is evil and sorrow in the world. In logical terms, you are saying my evil is fine because you are evil, too
I have nothing but contempt for people who are dishonest – I don’t care if they are white. black, green, male, female, Muslims, Christian, Jew, etc… I know there is a lot of competition, but Muslims are art the top of the list. Any reading of the Quran shows it to be full of hate and violence (“So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam” – 8:39 and “Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. Those who follow him are merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers – 48:29) and any reading of the hadiths reveals that Muhammad did so many vile things (for example:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127, http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html
Read verse 261,
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html#038.4348.
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/alshifa/pt4ch1sec2.htm, and many others)
The Americans are wasting their time in Iraque. There is no way that country will become democratic and peaceful. The religious, ethnic and group hatred is too deep and – lets be honest – Islam is not fertile ground for a society based upon freedom and equality. In about two years the Americans will be out of Iraque, but Islam will still be oppressing people and Internet sites like this will still be ignoring the hate and violence in the Quran and the evil acts in the life of Islams dear prophet
There is no hope. There is nothing we can do about it. Bad times are coming
John Kactuz
Dubh:
Will we ever see the Vatican to urging Catholics around the world to speak out against evils within their own government; this includes American Catholics, British Catholics, etc.? Will we see the pope this Sunday coming out in international TV screens and clearly stating his opinion –and what should be the view of Catholics around the globe- against the “evil” in today’s world?
It’s a pretty clear statement. He does not do enough, in my opinion, as compared to the power he holds over hundreds of millions of people.
Not one headline have I seen about this, not one call for any sort of protests whether peaceful or others, not even open and clear condemnation of the wars or other. You see the main problem is that the guy supposedly represents religion, the guy supposedly is god’s representative here on earth, and like sins and virtues, heaven and hell, why isn’t he clearly pointing out the right from wrong?
Beside, Last time I checked, John Paul has passed on. What has Benedict done since last year?
Moodz,
See here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/03/special/world/sp_world_powers030703.htm
“The Pope, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, and Church leaders throughout the world have been very clear that they believe that war should be avoided and that alternatives to war still offer a reasonable way to ensure that the Iraqi government disarm. The Holy Father has said many times that war would be a “defeat for humanity.” No one doubts his strong opposition to a war against Iraq at this time. ”
The Pope is in the business of Right and Wrong. It is, in fact, his primary business. He speaks of little else. He deals in issues and morals not temporal regimes. That is, he decries abortion as an abomination, war is a scourge, etc. etc. Popes release frequent writings called encyclicals found here: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/index_en.htm
Granted he’s written only one but they typically release one every year or so. Additionally, in his previous role as head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of The Faith, he wrote extensively on injustice and the responsibilities of Catholics to face them directly.
Additionally, there have been countless Bishops who have denounced the war and continually denouce America and it’s citizens for a litany of sins and injustices. There are a few who seem to do little else. There is also the USCCB (US Council of Catholic Bishops) who frequently release statements about what we’re all doing wrong or not doing right. Much of this doesn’t get picked up in the press here so I can imagine you don’t get much of it either.
The Pope has been rather busy since his investiture. He has been travelling and there was that World Youth Day thing in Germany as well. A man with over a billion people in his flock tends to have a full calendar.
I pose the following questions: Do you think Christians are treated fairly in Muslim countries? Do you think they are treated as well as they are treated in either Christian or secular nations?
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Emoodz u shud just calm down. The guy didnt ask for much n bahrain is a prime example of wat he’s asking for. We have freedom of religion. We have churches n no person is forced to embrace our religios teaching. The only thing required of any non muslim is to respect our customs n religious beliefs. The pope is one of the few ppl that are moderate when it comes to islam n its beliefs there are millions of sites in the internet portraying islam as an evil religion the worst out there. It just shows their ignorance of this truly amazing religion. It is actually a very sad thing to see countries like france n turkey that advocate freedom for all stripping muslims and christains of their rights and religious beliefs. Just lately muslim women who are teacher were denied the right to wear hijab even when they are heading to school!! Wearing Hijab in school is not permitted. That is sad and outrageosly contridicts religious freedom. Even christian are not permitted to wear crosses or necklace with religious figure such as Holy Mary. Secularism could be a very strong and fair system of governing states n law but when it reaches out and denies ppl of their right to act with accordance to their religious doctrines that i believe freedom is no longer preserved.
The Vatican has written numerous documents on the sanctity of life and the application of human rights. You need only to go to the Vatican websites and read some of the encyclicals. If they are not available online, you can probably order them. They have already denounced the Iraq war, human rights violations in China, Palestine, Africa, as well as all over the world.
That’s far more than I’ve heard from the imams at Al Azhar and Mecca, who seem oblivious to what’s going on Darfur, where the Muslim government is massacreing Muslims by the hundreds of thousands. (the body count is up to 200,000). It would be nice if they called on Muslims to hold protests against Sudan, instead of dumb shit like the Danish cartoons.
Western catholics do speak out against the evils of their own government. There are many government watchdog organizations in western countries. Catholics join them along with their non-catholic neighbors.
The Pope does not have godlike powers. Just because he denounces some evil doesn’t mean it’s going to go away.
Dubh;
According to Iraqi Body Count, the civilian death count is about 40,000 not 100,000. The 100,000 number was disproved a while ago. It also makes the US responsible for 37% of civilian deaths, which would about 15,000. The majority of civilian deaths are attributed to the Iraqis themselves (insurgents, criminals, etc ..)
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/press/pr12.php
you have an excellent point moodz.
good post!
Moodz you’re kind of taking this too much. Reading into it… I mean the guy said “Muslims, please get your act together and don’t chop more heads.” Now why are you upset? Moreover, when the book and the movie “da vinci code” was out this gentleman didn’t issue a fatwa to kill tom hanks and dan brown and boycott the publisher… so you can kind of see where he’s coming from. I totally agree with the way strange attractor puts it.
The reason so many innocents have died in Iraq are the terrorists. Who routinely target innocent civilians. Who routinely and relentlessly hide behind their own people. Who desire to push the entire region into the horror of a civil war.
Speaking as a Westerner, we have begun to have had enough of this shit from the Middle East. We see riots from a few cartoons, but when muslims invaded the Nazarene sepulcher, defecated on the floor and wiped their rears with pages of a Bible, what outcry was there? None. Imagine if Christians had done the same with Mecca and pages from the Qur’an!
Nor was there outcry about the fact that the Sikh lost two of their most holy shrines in the India/Pakistan partition. Imagine if you had to see the Cross flying over Medina and the Star of David over Mecca! My Sikh friends assure me it is a similar situation.
Nor has there ever been an outcry of the uncalculable numbers of Muslims killed at the hands of other muslims. Those kinds of death just don’t seem to count to Islam.
I am proud that the Holy Father takes a firm stand on this matter. Enough is enough. The Pope is right to demand that, in exchange for the security and bounty you enjoy within _our_ countries and civilisation, you can at least stop killing Christians in yours!
Why does he (the pope) not want an open discussion on Islam with the Islamic (and christian) scholars like Dr Zakir Naik? Is he scared that he will be openly embarrassed the way Dr Ahmed Deedat made mincemeat of Jimmy Swagart? If you remember, many years back, even TIME and NEWSWEEK refused a full page ad, where Dr Ahmed Deedat asked the pope for an open dialog, and TIME and NEWSWEEk both refused to print the ad ,even when offered US$ 100,000 !!!!
So, if he (the pope) has the guts, ask him to have an open air dialog, any place, any time with Islamic scholars like Dr Zakir NAik, and see what happens…………..(I bet Jimmy Swaggart will call him and tell him to call in sick or something…)
I used to be very tolerant towards different cultures emigrating to the EU (european union).
This has dramatically changed not only for me but probably for the majority of eu-citizens.
… and the problem is ‘islam’. Because of terrorism, intolerance towards differently thinking people, total lack of self-criticism and the profoundly irritating habit of muslims to have to impose themselves on all the others and always with agressiveness even in non-islamic countries. If right wing extremism is rising in the EU it is just because of that.
OK, i agree a lot of actions (street protest, manifestations against the pope, against denmark, etc…) are orchestrated by their islamic (often dictatorial ànd corrupt regims) governements , to quiet down the people and avoid them from looking at their real problems (corruption, poverty, lack of freedom and voluntary misinformation).
to mr Iqbal (comment 11):
Resolving problems is NOT about open tv-debates between e.g. the Pope and mr Deedat, mr M. Iqbal. And the way you’ve put it, mr Iqbal, is another example of agressiveness or , more likely, frustration The pope is not a holy person and he does not claim it. But neither is Mohammed (are you holy because you claim to have received orders from God or because you invented another monotheistic religion?). There is not even firm prove that he ever existed. The Pope’s role is not to participate in the kind of polemic debates you propose. If mr Deedat or any other want to discuss with the Pope, he can ask for an audience, although i doubt that he’ ll ever get one.
If Time did not want to print mr Deedat’s ad. It is their democratic right to do so. Maybe, people at Time Mag found mr Deedats proposal just not interesting. You see, this is proof that they have higher values at Time than just money.
Everything would be so much easier if there was more tolerance, so why not teach that in your mosks in stead of crying for jehad, maybe you would get more respect that way. Because RESPECT is EARNED, not claimed.
The pope must have an interfaith dialogue with Dr Zakir Naik
Prepare for a dialogue spread this suggestion for dialogue between pope and Dr Zakir Naik .
Yes! There must be open dialogue between Pope (chuch) and Dr Zakir Naik (IRF)),that must be telecasted live on popular channels accross the world or atlest they must publish it in all the polular papers.
Pope has been challenged by Dr Zakir Naik
Lets see what Pope had spoken when he meets Dr Zakir naik
in debate
Here is reference for this invitation to the pope by Dr Zakir Naik
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?155694
do you think Pope will agree to have a dialogue with Dr. Zakir Naik? No he will not agree because he knows he cannot face him in a dialogue based on Quran and Bible
the pope before visiting the orthodox church made this statement, rather Quoted this statement. Because he wants to gather all the christian extremists in one place, as they have been broken down,against the muslims to make way for the clash of civilizations. If muslims are called the extremists for fighting for their rights against occupying forces, what would you call Hitler killing million jews. And Slobodan Milosevic , CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS. What about the 9-11 INSIDE JOB, muslims don’t say it, Americans say it, american christians. You killed many of ur own people in it. What about the Insane extremists who recently shot dead children in Canadian and american schools. They were Christians. In Spain many muslims were by force turned Christians, Isn’t that extremism? The pope, if he’s not a holy or religious person, why do u choose him to be ur religious leader?
Muslim, why would the Pope be interested in discussing the Quran? Or the Bible, for that matter? Muslims dfon’t recognize the validity of the Bible, and Christians don’t recognize the validity of the Quran. That’s never going to change. And Christianity/Islam dialog will be about other things. Or there is no point to even having a dialog.
what has the pope got to say? nothing ab solutely nothing,and he will never ever accept the dialogue,NEVER,they know what they have done to christians and the bible,the fact has come even more glaring now,that is why thechristianfaith is deminishing,i dare any christian scholar theologian,pastor ,reverand bishop to any dialogue with a muslim,they all shy away the holy sprit only guides them in church but not in dialogues,where they play GODS.i?
Zakir naik invites pope bendict for an open interfaith dailouge.
The Islamic faith was created by the pope and now it is backfiring…
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East Riffa, Bahrain
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